The Leadership Diet Podcast with Padraig OSullivan


The Leadership Diet with Padraig O’Sullivan

Our weekly podcast is a series of interviews with leaders and experts. We uncover all things that lead to great leadership.

Ep 14. How living systems can help leaders navigate uncertain times with Dr. Josie McLean

Josie Mclean specialises in helping leaders and organisations learn how to navigate complexity by taking lessons from the world around us, ie. living systems. Her recent book, Big Little Shifts, outlines practises for leaders and practitioners on how to lead when times call the leader to adapt.

In this conversation she shares;

  • Why oak trees will never become ducks!
  • Why patience, trust and humility are enduring leadership traits,
  • What the metaphor Leader as Gardener really entails,
  • Why there are different types of doing in leadership,
  • And why our experimenting muscle has been getting a work out recently


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